Category: Geeks r Us
I have written extensively about wanting a KeyNote Companion, or at least, a KeyNote Gold SA synthesizer. In fact, I've been searching for one for over a decade! A few months ago, I found a Companion. But the price was so high that I ignored it. On a hunch, I went back to Ebay yesterday, and it's still there! Not only do you get the notetaker itself, but many accessories as well! So I am thinking of e-mailing the seller to see if he is willing to bargain, since did say that offers might be accepted. Here is the link to the listing, as well as the contents, incase it disappears.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/PulseData-HumanWare-KeyNote-COMPANION-Series-II-COMPLETE-SYSTEM-SOFTWARE-MOR-/121185953895
"Up for auction is a HumanWare KeyNote Companion Series II Complete System. This System is used but has been cleaned, tested and comes complete with a 14 Day Guarantee. Cosmetically this System is in good condition with minor signs of prior use; the System shown in the pictures is the actual one you are bidding on. You will receive ONLY what is listed in the “What’s Included” section below and shown in the pictures provided, nothing else is included please bid accordingly.
What’s Included:
· PulseData HumanWare KeyNote Companion Series II
· PulseData HumanWare KeyNote Companion Case
· PulseData HumanWare KeyNote Companion Program & Data Storage Card
· PulseData HumanWare KeyNote Companion User’s Manual
· PulseData HumanWare KeyNote Companion KeySoft & The Internet Manual
· PulseData HumanWare KeyNote Companion Software Floppy Discs Versions 1.00 & 2.4E
· PulseData HumanWare KeyNote Companion 1.44 MB Floppy Disk Drive
· PulseData HumanWare KeyNote Companion Power Supply
· PulseData HumanWare KeyNote Companion Rev Connection Cable
· PulseData HumanWare KeyNote Companion KeySoft & Internet Tape
· PulseData HumanWare KeyNote Companion Manual on Tape (8 Tapes)
· New RadioShack In-Ear Headphones NOA37
· Verbatim 2HD Floppy Disk titled “Formatted”
· Braille Manual (not pictured)
· 14 Day Guarantee"
I know that at least two of you have used these in the past. I am honestly torn between getting this and getting an HP or other DOS palmtop. The advantage is that I may be able to install a later version of DOS onto it and also to work with various mainstream packages, new and old. But I would then need to get a speech synthesizer, which would add, not only to the cost, but to the weight and bulkiness of the machine. The Companion has speech built-in and everything is accessible. That said, if it's like my KeyNote Gold laptop, the version of DOS that it uses is stripped down. I'm not even sure which version it uses, and finding information on this notetaker is quite difficult. So I'm not sure what mainstream programs I could use or how it would compare as far as storage capacity of a compact flash card. Speaking of which, is there any way for me to copy the Keysoft and data software to other disks or cards for personal use and safe keeping? Gods forbid anything happens to it, I can't get it again! Finally, have any of you tried using a Companion or a palmtop to go on the internet? If so, how successful was it?
I'm really leaning toward getting this, even though my main DOS laptop is 99% ready and I do want a more modern notetaker for other things. It's just too good to ignore!
The reason its difficult to find information on it is because it still uses floppy
disks. Its the same reason its difficult to find step by step instructions on how to
use slide rules and butter churns. That is to say, its old. Old technologies, when
it comes to the internet and the modern world of convenience, do not work. If
they do work, they don't do it nearly as well as anything from this decade, and
even things made in 2012 don't work as well as things made today. Its the
nature of the world we live in, get used to it.
That's technically untrue. Much information can be found on many old items. I think it's because this is a piece of adaptive technology. In any case, it's not impossible, just difficult. For some other things, it really is practically impossible.
you arent aloud to email the seller about getting the item off of eBay. You need to use ebay's messaging system and pay thru ebay. you know that, dont you?
Yes. That's what I meant about e-mailing him. I had no intention of doing anything off of Ebay.
that's good cause you could get banned and that would suck for you, big time.
I began my search for palmtops to see how they compare with the Companion. I saw, as expected, the HP 96LX, 100LX, and 200LX. I haven't seen the 1000CX, but that's basically a 200LX with Lotice installed. Anyway, I also saw some later models with Windows 95 and 98. One said something about Epoc, but I've never heard of that. Has anyone ever worked with one of these Windows machines? If so, is it possible, as with a regular pc, to boot into DOS, or do these use stripped versions of Windows or specialised software that won't allow me to access DOS? If I can, then I may get one of these, provided that I can find one with a keyboard. But there's still the matter of a synthesizer to consider. I now own a Dectalk Express, but am not sure if it will work on batteries. My Echo certainly will, but I would rather not use that, given the low voice quality. Despite the fact that it has less power than some of these others, the Companion still looks promising. It already has various applications built-in, which I know will be accessible. I just wish I knew how the internet worked. At least there is a wide variety of software for me to try for the mainstream palmtops.
It seems that I found the answer to one of my questions here.
http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A3=ind0101&L=BLIND-HAMS&E=0&P=251363&B=--&T=TEXT%2FPLAIN;%20charset=US-ASCII&header=1
Apparently, the way that the internet works with the KeyNote Companion is through a shell account. I have a backup ppp, account through
http://www.toast.net
which works with Windows and with regular DOS, but I guess not with the internet software from Humanware. I know that Shellworld still offers accounts because I know someone who has one. But their site simply says It works! and nothing else. So I have no idea what's going on there, but I heard that they have a whole community with various options for hosting and whatnot. In any case, that answers the internet question. By the way, here is the Shellworld page.
http://www.shellworld.net
That is, unless I can exit Keysoft and use DOS from there as I did on my KeyNote Gold. Then, I might be able to use Nettamer or some such. But given the incredibly tiny amount of ram and whatnot on that machine, it's probably best as a speech synthesizer for a full laptop and a simple notetaker, calendar, etc.
you make things so difficult for yourself
hahaha I know! I think I might understand why I'm so confused about this machine, and while there are some serious technical questions involved, it's also very personal. I have wanted a KeyNote Companion since I was in high school. I was graduated in 2002. And now, here it is, right in front of me, as perfect and whole as I could ever want! But I also want to push the limits of DOS, and I can't do this with The Companion. On the other hand, I have that full laptop which is almost ready, so I'm arleady doing that! Then, I start thinking of why I want this in the first place. Is it just so that I can use the synthesizer when reading, or so that I can use it as an external synthesizer for DOS? If so, I can do that with a BrailleNote, and those are far cheaper than $495!
But then, something occurred to me, which brings this post from introspection back to technology. My KeyNote Gold laptop, as I said, has both the KeySoft software and DOS on it. So I can exit KeySoft and go straight in DOS with VocalEyes or another screen reader. I don't have the software for it, but I'm fairly sure that, if I at least had the driver, I could install the KeyNote Gold VoiceCard synthesizer into a regular DOS laptop or even a palmtop! But do I need that disk or will VocalEyes, ASAP, or JAWS already come with the drivers preinstalled when they ask me to choose a synthesizer? I didn't need drivers for my Echo or Dectalk Express. If so, then I may just get a regular palmtop and take the card out of my KeyNote Gold. If not, then the Companion does come with all of the software. I just need to determine whether its synthesizer is built-in or whether it, too, uses the VoiceCard. If so, then I can use it for awhile and then transfer both Keysoft and the synthesizer to a more powerful machine, and then I won't have to carry around a synthesizer!
After writing the above, I checked, and the VoiceCard does apparently require a driver, which I found here.
http://support.humanware.com/en-united_kingdom/support/braillenote/older_software
But VocalEyes and ASAP still have it as one of the options on install. I'll need to try and find more information on this tomorrow. I forget how drivers load and whatnot.
Inspired by both this thread and the one on the modern devices, I decided to try to discover how much ram would be needed to successfully load modern pages on the internet (to see if I could use a slightly older notetaker or handheld pc), and also if I could learn anything about using the internet in DOS today. While I still don't know the answer to the first question, as I got sidetracked, I did learn a few very important things about the second.
This is a video of someone using FreeDOS with the Arachne web browser. I have heard this is graphical, so I am not sure how well it would work with a screen reader. But it is, to my knowledge, keyboard-driven. It also has several interesting options aside from just surfing the net. Note that this man is not a very experienced DOS user and appears to still be learning about this software. He says that he couldn't access his network with MS-DOS, due to the memory restrictions. This is not true with 7.10, which is extracted from Windows (95B oor 98 SE, depending on which you have available). That version also enables users to format their drives as FAT32, a major advantage over FAT. He also said that it's not possible to load youtube videos. I know that you can stream things, but it may be restricted to audio. That said, there are various standalone video players, including ones that work with dvds. So while you may not be able to watch the videos live, you can download them and watch them later. Anyway, he says that Java doesn't work, and that loading large webpages, like Youtube, takes awhile. He didn't try Facebook, and though he said that e-mail can be done through Arachne using pop3, he didn't try GMail, which is, of course, web-based.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Qjnns1TPs
This author not only explains exactly how to access the internet but also provides links to software for browsing, downloading videos, and so on. This page is extremely recent, and was updated last year, so he is clearly aware of how to work with modern webpages.
http://users.ohiohills.com/fmacall/
Another page can be found here. It has so many links to software and tutorials, not to mention so many categories, that just trying to imagine them all makes my head spin!
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621/DOS/Websites.html
Finally, I discovered this. It's a video of a man who tried to do all of his normal Windows 7 activities in MS-DOS 6.22. It's also his first time using the system. His use of the manual helps him get through things, until he admits that he needs his tablet to do research, since he's not a book person. I found his adventure quite funny, and laughed out loud several times, particularly with the music and the chair! Even I learned a few new things, like how to copy and paste in Edit! I wonder if that will work with other programs? I did read that there is, in fact, a DOS clipboard, but I don't know much about it. I have also never seen DOS crash, which he managed to do twice! Having never seen colour, I had to laugh when he talked about having a picture with only 16 colours. I can't imagine needing so many for one picture. While this won't work for me, of course, he also manages to do many things with a mouse and to install a full graphical user interface. Apparently, he had many problems with playing mp3s, because although he found programs, they needed to be compiled. I will make sure that, when doing my own searches, I will look for one that is complete and that has good reviews. There is one, which I have used successfully, that plays wav files. I'm pretty sure it's on Jim Kitchen's page. At any rate, here is the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-74qPWgoBI
From all of this, I have learned that, while many of the things that I want to do can be done, the idea that DOS is really not for dummies is quite true. It is, as I have always said, a great way to stretch the mind, maintain discipline, improve memory, and in the case of this poor man trying to use DOS for the first time, remain sane! But I don't think that it will frustrate me as did trying to learn the Android, because, to me, the commands and information are intuitive and I feel as if I have full control of things, as long as speech works. *smile* But mastering it will take time.
So now, I return to my main questions here. Should I get the KeyNote Companion or another palmtop, or should I just wait until my 7.10 machine is ready so that I can practise on it before moving ahead to a smaller device? It took me 12 years to find this Companion, and the odds of finding another, let alone with so many accessories and in such great condition, are extremely rare. But is it worth it, given all that I want to do and it's extremely limited ram, memory, and so on? On the other hand, having the drivers and hardware will mean that I can transfer it all to a more modern machine later, and since it's internal, I won't have to carry around a synthesizer as I would with a Dectalk Express, or even a Doubletalk, if I bought one. But if I get this, I probably won't get a modern palmtop or notetaker. Not for awhile anyway, and then, I might miss out there. Maybe, once I figure out which of the newer ones could work for me, and how much they will cost, I will be better able to decide. The Companion is almost $500, and the Braille Plus (without docking station)), which seems to be the best of the modern machines so far, is almost $600. I think I need to decide whether I really do want to use DOS as a replacement for most things in Windows, or whether I wish to study it from the perspective of a scholar, taking it seriously but keeping a modern system for my daily needs.
As for the ram, I am guessing that it really depends on how much the operating system needs to function. So if I got a version of DOS without the usual memory limits, would it need, say 4gb of ram, as would Windows 7, to run smoothly on the net?
I haven't read or listened to a word you said but i want you to be a player on my blind
zone monster money team. For sure.
Why comment if you didn't even read what I said, and what does this have to do with computers?
As I said, I don't think the keynote companion will do you much good for everyday use. I'm not sure why you're so stuck on this device--so much so that you've wanted it for twelve years, but the simple fact is, that while some modern tasks might be functional in dos, this notetaker you speak of simply doesn't have the power for today's activities. Even if you could make your dos laptop fulfill some of your modern-day internet needs, you can't expand upon the keynote companion as you would a laptop. Its really not possible, what with the memory restrictions plus the accessibility standards of it. Maybe its time to give up on this keynote companion thing, or just get it and keep it as a hobby gadget if you can--because today's technology has far outgrown that little powerhouse from over a decade ago.
There is no piece of technology that has not been outdated by the comparable
technology of today. Everything from computers to forks is made better and
does its job better today than it did ten years ago.
Companies are moving away from old programming. Windows 98, and if
rumors are true, soon to be windows xp, are no longer supported. There will be
no security updates for them, no updates of any kind, nothing. That's because
they're outdated, and yet you want to use them. Simply because you don't want
to learn how to use the modern, not to mention cheaper, faster, better-built,
smaller, more powerful, technology of today.
So many times I see you come on here and put up board posts about how you
want to do this with your stone and chisel, but you can't figure out how to do it.
Every time we tell you the simplest solution, and you fight every step of the way
out of some arbitrary desire to use technology from the reagan administration.
Then, either you give up, or we do. Then two months later you're back
complaining that you can't do this or that now, and you want us to sharpen your
chisel so that you can continue making fire and maybe invent that wheel you've
been working on.
I also notice that you always list dozens of different pieces of technology that
you have to do different tasks. Do you know how many pieces of technology I
have that could do everything you've ever asked for on these boards? One, my
IPhone. Maybe my mac, so lets say two just to be charitable. You've listed more
pieces of technology you need in one sentence on some of your boards.
So here's my conclusion. It is said that insanity is doing the same thing over
and over and expecting different results. So, since you continue to do the same
thing over and over again, and you're bewildered when you don't get different
results, you're insane. Of course, that's been said before on these boards.
Let me clue you in. There are about to be massive changes to the world of
technology. Everything is going to get smaller and smarter in the very near
future. You can already see it with the IWatches and such. While you may be
able to escalate some piece of computer from pompae that you can still finagle
into working for you. But that working is only going to last a little while. Its the
nature of conservatism. You refuse to progress, you get left behind. That is what
is going to happen to you, and then you'll come whining to us about how you
can't do this, or you can't do that. While some of us think to ourselves, "I had a
phone that could do that since I graduated high school. What the hell is she
talking about, she can't do it?" Then you'll pick something from the clinton
administration, and it'll start all over again.
hahaha I don't know why either. I think they stopped making it in 1998 or so. But there is a practical reason that I only thought of recently. I can use it both as a standalone device and as a speech synthesizer. But unlike the BrailleNote, which can be used for the same purpose, I can actually remove the synthesizer card and reinstall it into another machine, along with KeySoft. I have the VoiceCard, as I said. But not the driver. Still, I found the latter on Humanware's site and may not need it if one of my screen readers has it built-in, as they do for the Dectalk Express. I would love to try this out, but am not sure if I can with the DOS prompt through XP. When I tried installing ASAP, it didn't work. Maybe, VocalEyes or JAWS for DOS will work better. I don't need to use the Portspeak program, since NVDA will also be speaking. So I may try this, just to see what happens. If, in fact, it does work, then I won't need to get the Companion, because I already have the synthesizer. If it doesn't, then I will need to get it in order to have the software. I could wait for An Apollo II synthesizer, since that can actually handle Greek! But the odds of me finding one of those are very slim. If I don't get this, then, my options are an Echo (which I know works perfectly), a Dectalk Express (which may need some work done on the volume knob and/or speaker), and if I can find it, my BrailleNote, though it has an issue where it doesn't work for very long when it's unplugged. I have an Accent SA, but don't know where it is and was never able to get it to work. My other option is to get a brand new Doubletalk LT, for $179. This is the only hardware speech synthesizer, to my knowledge, that is still being manufactured.
http://www.rcsys.com/dt.htm
So it's an interesting quandary. I'm terrified to remove that VoiceCard from my KeyNote Gold laptop, lest I break it, but it must be done for the purposes of experimentation.
I've never known someone stuck on old tech as much as you! I've bet you got a bunch of old junk. Honestly, who needs that stuff when you have modern day tech? Wow:)
SilverLightning, you may be right when it comes to computers. But not all old technology and items are bad. My talking clock is from 1994 or so, and still works flawlessly. Plus, it has the best voice of any such device I have ever heard. Not the annoying bell and high pitched voice but a very nice female one. I change the batteries literally every few years. I also have a Language Master, with talking dictionary, grammar guide, and games, that works very nicely. While I can't use it to look up extremely modern words, it serves well for the basics, as well as for typing in temporary memos. I have a blender from the 1980s, a mixer from the 1970s (probably older), and my measuring spoon set that I use daily is over 100-years-old. I have a stovetop coffeemaker that works very well, and am in the market for a real percolator because I want to try it. But I will admit that my electric one, from 1978, stopped working for no reason one day. I also have the first standard cassette recorder that Sony ever made, which works, though obviously, my Wilson is tiny and clips to my belt. My microwave, while only a few years old, uses strictly dials with no touchscreen, and it works perfectly.
At any rate, I was originally just going to ask about more recent handhelds and notetakers. Then, when I found this Companion, I was just going to show you all that I finally found one, but got stuck in this dilemma when I seriously considered buying it. But I am also keeping that other thread open, because if I really do find something relatively recent that meets my needs, I don't want to miss out on it. I don't need something to be small enough for a doll or to have a flat screen. The size of a BrailleNote is good enough, and so is a solid keyboard backing it.
hardyboy09, to be honest, I haven't thought much about old technology in the last year or two, as I've been very involved in Greek politics, language, history, culture, and so on, plus writing essays.
Tiff, how is a older braille note taking device going to out do your nexus7? I am sorry but in this boards context silver lightening is right. You came on here a few or more months asking help with a nexus7, I offered to ehlp. Did you once off board come and asking a question. No!, The same probly holds true with IOS when you were looking at IPods. I guess my point is this, take your nexus7, go to apps, with two fingers swipe to the left until you get to settings, then double tap settings. next, with the same two finger jesters swipe up until you here , printing, accessibility, about tablit. Now swipe to accessibility "swiping is done by taking one finger and gently brushing the screen left, right up or down. You want to stop on accessibility. Now double tap "double tap is a quick one finger tap on the touch screen quickly with out your finger nales in the way. Its skin to screen contact that will activate the item under your finger". Now take your finger and explore "exploring the screen is the method with you place your finger tip gently on the screen and move it up, down, left or right." Your looking for talkback, its at the top part of your touch screen on the nexus7 when held in portrid mode. Now double tap talkback, then swipe to settings "these are not the system settings, they are settings for talkback." Now with two fingers swipe up until you get toe the bottom of talkback's settings, swipe left until you get to explore by touch tutorial. Tiff do spend about 1 to 2 hours aday here learning the jesters for talkback.
Your talking clock and Language Master do not have to integrate into the rest of the world.
The power of modern technology is its interconnectedness to the rest of the world. Your Language master would continue to be a Language Master, if I understand the device correctly, with or without an Internet.
Take it back 50 years and it could still be used.
Your iPod, iPhone or other web-enabled device would become little more than a shiny paperweight in a pre-Internet era.
Technology is striving to keep pace with the evolving needs of an increasingly connected society.
Thankfully, I actually have a keyboard with my Nexus 7, so can avoid at least some of the need for a touchscreen. I have actually tried the tutorial, several times. I made it to maybe the third or fourth level. I don't remember. But eventually, I either touched the wrong thing and accidentally exited the tutorial, or got frustrated and just completed the task with the keyboard. It seems that in Android, at least, there are a lot of unnecessary steps to do simple things. I feel as if I'm working with a Rube Goldberg machine!
Yes Tif, and those things your talking clock can do, and your talking dictionary
can do, I can do with one hand, while walking, not at home, and without having
to touch the screen of my phone. I can ask my phone a question that would fry
your talking dictionary, and it'll tell me the answer easily. I can use my phone to
log into my computer by knocking on my phone. I don't even have to take it out
of my pocket. I can even, if I chose to, unlock my front door with my phone,
and only my phone.
You should really stop using an old microwave, for safety reasons, since the
insolation on it wears off relatively quickly, and can actually be hazardous to
your health. A mixer isn't really that difficult, it goes in a circle. However, the
one I own, does it with less effort, better torkc, less electricity, and quieter than
anything that the seventies could have ever produced. And really Tif, measuring
spoons, that's your standard? Never mind the fact that measuring cups and
spoons today are made more accurate and out of less reactive metal, the fact
that you're proud of the fact that you use old measuring spoons is pathetic.
hey tiff, i know you just like old tech.
guys tha'ts just her thing. i guess if she can find ways to make it work tha'ts good for her.
i'm not all into the touch thing either, and i dont think you have to stick to that for doing things. however, eh. i dunno. its like si silver said. why use 50 devices to do what one device can do so much easier, faster, etc?
tiff, i think you just like the idea of seeing what you can do with old devices. but i hope for your sake this is only a hobby thing and not what you'd use to do your every day tasks.
you are one smart chick and this is your thing. personally i wouldn't go thru all that to get whatever to work but eh. to each there own? smile.
I just went to collect my VoiceCard synthesizer to see if I can install it onto my Thinkpad through the so-called DOS prompt, and now I remember why I originally wanted a KeyNote Gold SA synthesizer and not a Companion or VoiceCard. There is an extremely specialised cord, as I said earlier, that you need to connect into the card itself. If you don't have it, the card is pretty much a dust protector for the pcmcia slot. Now, of course, I can't find mine! I will have to really think of where it is, because it's not where I would expect to find it. This is a strong case for sticking with a regular external synthesizer, or at the least, for leaving the Companion intact and just using it that way as an external for a laptop or even a palmtop.
Aphrodite is still a dirty dirty bitch. That cunt gave me the crabs.
um what, matt ?
Yes!!! I found my cord! Now, I can continue with the experiment!
Okay. I got at least one answer. I need vc.exe, which is the driver for the voicecard. I'm sure it's in my KeyNote Gold laptop, but it's not working properly at the moment, so I'll see if I can get the driver from Humanware. I'll also try VocalEyes, since I didn't have to install a driver there. Then again, it was already in the laptop, so that could be why.
I think ASAP doesn't like me. That or Windows XP doesn't like it. I downloaded the driver and the files it requested to be there were on it. But when I tried to install it, after it inflated and extracted certain files, it said that one of them is missing, which I know is not true, since I did a dir/b before installing, just to make sure that everything was there. Then, when I tried installing again, I got something like "installvc.exe is not a valid Windows32 application". So it seems that I really need a Windows 3.1 or true DOS machine to do this! I have a 98 one, but finding the cord will be impossible! Great! Now trying VocalEyes. I have a feeling, though, that this will work in real DOS, which means that I solved my synthesizer issue. If I can get a new cord for my Itronix, then I will know, once and for all, if this works. I'll also have a nice 6.22 machine to play with until the 7.10 comes!
If nothing else, it does seem that my Dectalk Express is working. I managed to install VocalEyes on my old Dell, which has a serial port, a usb port, and thankfully, a pcmcia slot, since the usb stopped working, as usual. Anyway, when I went into the speech directory and typed talk, Dectalk announced itself and the driver number. It wouldn't do anything else, but I think this is because I was using cmd.exe under Windows XP and not MS-DOS. The good thing is that since it's on a compact flash card, once I get the adapter for my Itronix laptop, I can get assistance in figuring out which letter it assigns to the flash card and start VocalEyes from there, then install it to the actual hard disk. The bad news is that I don't know if the synthesizer battery will hold a charge. I'm leaving it plugged in to see. This is one of the reasons why I wanted to use a pcmcia one. It makes things a lot more portable.
I left it plugged in, as I said it would, and the next day, it was dead when I unplugged it and turned it on. So that answers the question about my Dectalk Express. Thankfully, I got that Doubletalk from Ebay. It just came today, and I was quite surprised! It looks exactly like one of my Echos! I have to get a nine-volt battery to try it out, but it seems to be in excellent condition. I have JFW 4.02 on my desktop, and if I remember correctly, it has an option for Doubletalk. If not, then I'll see what does, so that I can experiment. In either case, it's a small synth, so can easily be used and carried with a laptop or handheld machine.
4.02? good lord.
haha I don't use it. I use the latest version of NVDA. I just never uninstalled it. I thought I had 4.5 on there, but when I checked, it was 4.02. I do have the disk somewhere, so may upgrade it, but as I said, I never use JFW in any case. Still, it may serve its purpose now. I think I also have Kurzweil 6 or so on there. I'm thinking of getting Scan2text, as it can handle Greek, and at $99, the price is decent.
lol tiff you make me laugh.
4.02. damn.
you make my older system running 7 now (which runs great), seem new....
I have Jaws15 personally and love it.
I want to see how long my baby's will last.
at the point I gotta replace the motherboard, its buh bye puter.
I also have the disks for 3.3 and 3.7, and have the latter installed on a 98 machine, if I remember correctly. My oldest computer is an Apple IIC, which works, but I think the monitor might be going out. I haven't tried my IIGS, but as far as I know, it was given to me in working condition. My two Keynote Gold laptops, with MS-DOS 6.21 on them work but give me error messages at start-up. The one, I know, is because I don't have the VoiceCard instealled. But I think the other has a problem with the bios. It tells me to hit f2 or some such. This is before VocalEyes starts, so I can't be sure. Windows 3.1 is also installed on them, but I've never played with that.
I think you just like to play tif... smile.
ok guys nobody can say she doesn't have a modern system now.
Anyone know where I can get a braille 'n' speak that'll run windows 8? *sarcasm*
Love you but how do your people make money when they give me a pound of fries with
my food? I think you are going to be heard someday. Btw win 7 is pretty cool. Hey tif
compare a carburater to fuel injection Cheers
where can I get a android device running windows7? lol
grin tiff, you cant blaim them for picking on you.
I may get picked on, but that doesn't stop me from trying to reach my goals. In this case, I did find a Companion, as I said, but the price held me back. That, and the fact that I could probably get a much better handheld, for DOS, Windows, or Linux, depending on my choice. Today, it seems that I am on the way to resolving another of my frustrating issues, that of learning and finding employment in the so-called blind trades. I wrote about it in my post entitled "For the Love of Crafts". I can't decide whether trying to learn DOS and get everything set up for it or trying to learn these trades has given me the biggest headache!
Don't know anything about your trade thing, but honestly? my guess is that this dos/finding this or that that wil do XYZ is a pretty big headache giver.
Trades might be worse. At least, with DOS, the generic answers can be found. It's the more complicated ones, and the blind specific ones that are difficult to obtain. But with the trades, there's hardly anything useful available! They used to teach many of them to the blind, but now, almost no one does, and the literature isn't exactly helpful. Even in the few cases where it is, without sighted instructions, at least to get me started, I'm lost.
what exactly are you tryin to do ?
trades as in what kinda trade?
This may help.
https://www.zonebbs.com/boards.php?t=28834
Things like weaving baskets and other items with read, chair caning (seatweaving), and making jewellery, soaps, and brooms, plus other things that I learn along the way.
Hi Cody, this board topic is a little old but I've been reading your responses to Tiff's questions and I just want to know what makes you think that perhaps she's not collecting this old technology as a hobby? I may have missed something where she said otherwise so let me know if that is the case.
I know that people collect radios for example from time gone by and all sorts of things.
I, for example, heard about an apple 2UE emulator (you may have heard about the apple 2UE's from the 80's). I mucked around with it because it was nostalgia for me to play all those old games even with the Echo voice I can't understand that well. Lol.
I have a real Apple IIC and IIGS, but not the IIE. Yes, I'm all too familiar with the Echo. It was my only synthesizer, even in DOS, for the longest time. But recently, I got a Dectalk Express and a Doubletalk. The latter is still being made.
When it comes to really old things, like the Apples, it's just a hobby. But I take DOS computing seriously. Of course, I couldn't really do much with a Companion, unless I used it as a notetaker and an external synthesizer for a more powerful machine. But I have always liked that voice and have been seeking one of these, or a KeyNote Gold SA, for years. Anyway, you may enjoy this. It debunks most of the myths about DOS. Keep in mind, however, that it was written from the sighted point of view, and our screen readers for it haven't been updated in years.
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621/DOS/DOS-Fal.html
I have posted other links in other threads. Try the one on old operating systems for some of the best. *smile*
This is not my first go around with Tif. Its not the first time she's asked nearly
this exact question about technology. she does it repeatedly, then finds
something that half-asses her problem, and in a month or two is back to ask us
how to fix the problem caused by the half-ass solution she picked last time to
solve her problem, which is usually caused by the half-ass solution she chose to
solve the problem before that, and so on and so forth. Plus, if you look at her
lists of technologies she owns, which she's more than happy to parade in front
of you for your viewing pleasure, you can easily extrapolate the fact that, no,
she isn't doing this for fun. She's doing this out of idiocy, insanity and an
inexplicable need to use technology that I stopped using before I was out of
elementary school because there were better options. Does that answer your
question?
"This is not my first go around with Tif. Its not the first time she's asked nearly
this exact question about technology. she does it repeatedly, then finds
something that half-asses her problem, and in a month or two is back to ask us
how to fix the problem caused by the half-ass solution she picked last time to
solve her problem, which is usually caused by the half-ass solution she chose to
solve the problem before that, and so on and so forth. Plus, if you look at her
lists of technologies she owns, which she's more than happy to parade in front
of you for your viewing pleasure, you can easily extrapolate the fact that, no,
she isn't doing this for fun. She's doing this out of idiocy, insanity and an
inexplicable need to use technology that I stopped using before I was out of
elementary school because there were better options. Does that answer your
question" Darn skippy, look if you really want to muc about with old technology go find a nokea phone with talks, then compare it to your nexus7 and then use a IPod touch 4th or 5th gen. Come on, technology moves forward for a reason not back word.
I would hardly consider a nokea phone with talks to be old. If you want old, try accessing the internet via dialup with a shell account (no cheating with ppp or NetTamer), or access a bbs. Even I haven't done any of that!
Yup Nokia phones of that generation are old.
I'm glad I don't use the LG VX500 or whatever that was, back in 2005, which could only read out certain menu options, and I needed some teenager or hipster to text for me, if and when I ever did text back then, because it would not read out texts.
The matter is irrelevant: technology for most of us is a tool. Her approach to it is an ideology. One can never debate rationally with ideologues.
And I just noticed how Eloquence pronounces ideologues, and I think it gets that pronunciation right.
Honestly Tiff give your nexus7 touch screen a hug, hold it and relize touch screens are not going any where. There even being placed into appliances, cars and your age old micro wave has a form of one.
Oh you bring back memories guys; I use to use net tamer to access the internet back when I first started; so primitive. i could only log on to get mail then diconnect. I use to use ocmmow for the shell accounts; yeah for windows! :)
hahaha If my microwave has a touchscreen, it must be hiding from me! It's only a few years old, and is completely operated by dials. The one for the minutes and the other for settings like defrost, low, medium, and high. I almost never use that second dial. I just set the minutes and walk away. My stove, refrigerator, coffee pots, and other appliances are also free of them. Well, my refrigerator, at least, may have some kind of computerised component in it, since it's only about two years old. But it's also not a large one, so maybe it's still analogue.
Toddlers and teenagers seem to think window panes are touch screens: they can be found tapping on them if something on the other side of it intrigues them so.
oh no no no no no. Boys, you are wrong. Look at my Nokia phone with Talk. it talks. It
only took me about 5 minutes to tapily tap aand perhaps get some RSI as the result of
keep pressing the same set of numbers to turn it to letters compare to 15 seconds on my
ipad/iphone/nexus. And, as a perfectly normal person, why don't i spend 5 minutes on
trying to texting someone but 15 seconds? You guys are a bunch of fool. Lets talk about
5.25" disk instead.
The nokia phone is not the joke btw, i'm traveling, and decided to take the old phone for
local number. I'm so frustrated with that thing i nearly throw it out the window, for real...
Wonder how i survived my late teenager era, using that damn thing to texts, and how i
don't get RSI from it was a wonder.
I don't text and have never heard of RSI. I also hate using letters for numbers, as it's very confusing and time-consuming. That's the only reason why I didn't get that RiVO keyboard for the Android, beacuse it virtually eliminates the use for the touchscreen. If it had real letters, I would have bought it. As for floppies, shell we talk single or double density? Personally, I like Superdisks, which look like ordinary 3.5 inch 1.44mb disks, but which can hold up to 200mb. You need special drives to use them. I usually save information on compact flash, and now, on thumb drives. But I keep a few floppies around, just incase I need to install certain programs that require them. Oddly enough, I have never liked cds or dvds.
PinaColada your post make me laugh and greatful I stuck with the windows moble platform before I went to android. Even now I will never use windows mobile pocket or other wise.
Wait, Tif doesn't like CD's or DVD's, hands up now, whose shocked? Anybody?
Anyone at all? Beuler? Beuler? Nope, guess not.
And I'm sorry, did you really just say millibars as if that's something to be
proud of? Millibars? My penis can probably hold that many millibars. We
measure in gigs now, and we're even starting to measure in terra. And you're
impressed by frickin' millibars? Next you'll be saying that your boyfriends chin
whiskers are millimeters long now, as if its something to be proud of.
Sorry, I was genuinely trying to be helpful earlier, because I thought maybe
she could be convinced, but when she said that, I can't do it anymore. I just
can't.
Mb would be megabytes. And did I not also say that I use compact flash and thumb drives as my main media types, and not floppy disks? I have cards with 1, 2, 4, 16, and 32gb (gigabytes) on them, and both of my thumb drives are 32gb. I just like the fact that they were able to squeeze 240mb (200 was wrong) onto a magnetic storage medium that I'm used to seeing with only 1.44mb. I was also partly joking. When I saw 5.25 disks, even I had to laugh, because the only use I would have for those is if a program came on them and I needed to install it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperDisk
You do realize that its so easy to get 32 gigs these days that you can literally
buy thyem on cheap little throw away keychains, right? 32 gigs is no longer
something to be proud of. 32 gigs was a lot ten years ago. Now, its nothing. My
IPod alone is twice that, and it isn't even the biggest one I could have gotten.
And you're still surprised over 240 megabites? That isn't even a single movie.
Its pathetic.
Cody didn't you mean megabytes? what the hell are millibars? lol.
And oh my goodness. 240 MB. thats' so... impressive. Really. I'm amazed. Where can I get one of these ultrasuper retro disks. lol
Even on an actual hard drive, I could easily use 60, 80, or 120gb without a problem. I don't need more than that. As for my 32gb card, since I only backup my documents, music, and some .exe files for programs, only about 16gb of it is currently full. Even if I added all the files that I don't need or use daily, I could still get away with a 120gb drive or card.
As for where to find the Superdisks, try Ebay. But you'll need a reader or drive for them, as they won't work in regular 3.5 inch drives.
Bernadetta, millibar is what MB actually stands for. MB for megabyte is a
relatively new idea. A millibar is a unit of measure similar to a rad or a degree.
And that is why the VoiceOver says millibars.
Anyway it almost pains me to do this: I'm gonna admit that this topic has actually done something useful. I went through my chest of drawers here in my office: the one the Wife never opens (fortunately) and asks when I am going to go through it and, what she calls 'purge'.
Well, all this talk of floppy dicks erm I mean disks and CDS and such, I decided to do just that. It's a heat wave - for us that means highs are the 90s - and so I was up real early this morning opening windows and stuff to cool the place down. So went through and actually found I had some old floppies from at least a decade ago, plus a whole slew of CDs I will never use. Unhappy hipsters would be upset to learn I did not know how to recycle these, so they went into File 13, to be hauled out later tonight.
Had to throw in the old word for trash, just for Tiff. File 13 was used by people *my* parents' age, which would be many of your grandparents' age. So that would be about close to her era.
You got me there. I haven't heard of it until now. I thought you were joking, and it was some kind of program for CP/M, UNIVAC or ENIAC! And before anyone starts, those are waaaaay too old even for me, though I would like to play with CP/M, as a hobby, since I heard it does have a screen reader. Anyway, file 13 is just a way of saying that you'll throw something out, and has nothing to do with computers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_13
But now I'm curious. Do any of those floppies and cds contain programs, rather than personal data? If so, and if you think I'll be interested in them, I'll gladly take them off your hands.
Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. Lmfao.
I wasn't serious about finding the so-called superdisks. I threw out all my floppies in the year 2000, when I was in the fifth grade. Even then, I knew something better was to come along. lol
32GB for all those files? I have 32GB free for music alone!!! You must not have a lot of music, or I simply have too much.
That's nothing Bernadetta. I have over six hundred gigs for music alone, and
lets not even get into audio books, or DVS movies, or my biggest file, tv shows.
I have entire external drives for those files alone.
I know that, write away. I was meeting your sarcasm with some of my own.
SilverLightning, I can't even imagine having that much data, be it documents, music, or videos. My music folder is about 4gb, and even if I kept all the songs that I don't like, or that I don't usually listen to often, it still wouldn't be even close to 10gbb. Maybe, it's because I use mp3s. As for films, I very rarely download those, or watch them for that matter. But when I do, I just use Songr and choose mp3 as my format, since I don't need the video. I do the same with shows, mostly documentaries, though I usually delete them after I've watched them. Mostly, unless it's music, I just watch things on Youtube. I have hundreds of books in my computer, but they're all in txt format, so are quite small in size. But I'm not against audio books or dramadisations. I downloaded both The Hobbit (BBC) and the Lord of the Rings (Phyll Dragash) from Youtube and fully enjoyed them.
Tif, most of us have you beat with how much music we have, along with the fact that most of us use iPhones, and would likely all agree about how wonderful it is to have everything in one place, not to mention everything else that can be done with those phones.
True. But this post (about old technology) as well as the PDA/Notetaker one (about much newer technology) was in regards to me buying a machine. A 2tb hard drive and 32gb of ram is hardly anything that I would need, either on an old or a new system.
No, what I would say you need at this point are some drastically expanded
horizons. That's just sad.
I hardly think there is anything wrong with a 3ghz processor, 4/8gb of ram, and a 80-160gb hard drive. Those are the specs on the desktop that I'm considering. Why on Earth would I need more than that for what I do?
You sounded a bit like the young pimply gamers who wish they were programmers, there, Tiff: I didn't mean anything but the trash, as I stated.
It's all thrown out: old driver disks from long dead machines, old software all of it Win95 and later, and floppies that either had nothing on them or had old data, maybe a backup or two of something from the mid 90s, I couldn't be bothered.
Plus floppies degrade just sitting around for decades. No matter what some websites say.
The magnetism gets lost, and the tracks are all magnetically defined.
Oh yeah, a few old CDs from the daughter's early experimental phases with digital cameras, again, driver and photo software. Long before her venture In to the higher-end stuff.
I wouldn't want to pay to pack that stuff up and send it off anyway, and could not violate me conscience to do so Free Matter since it is not blind related.
Anyway sad hipsters may mourn and howl: I dono how to recycle these, so they will soon be in the local landfill, whenever next the truck comes by and empties the bins.
I wasn't trying to sound like anything. I just thought you were joking about something so old that even I wouldn't know it. Ah well. No loss in the bins. *smile* I thought it was DOS stuff that you found.
I had to take a major Papadopoulos this morning.
I would have no way to check the integrity of the floppies anyhow since there is no floppy drive in the house, and hasn't been for years.
i'm about to remove my working floppy drive from my desktop to put an SSD in there and install w7 on it. yes the drive still works and it didn't get a lot of use. I got it in 1999 and its been ported from desktop to desktop. I cant remember the last time I actually used it though. lol. corse the last port of stuff was in 2006 too.
Will you be throwing it away or keeping it? Would you be willing to sell it, if it fits into an HP DC7900?
Funny, my nexus5 has a 32 gig storage capacity and to you Tiff that is a lot? It also has when needed a Oden USB many to USB two adapter so I can plug-in flash drives.
I have no use for it so yeah i'd sell it if you want it.
its a 3.5 inch drive . you are aware of this correct?
you might want to know the place where the floppy goes in is scratched as a disk did get stuck in there once. however its only on the opening of the door and doesn't effect performance.
Given the time frame, I figured it was 3.5 and not 5.25. If anything, I use the former, so it's fine.
yeah.... but i mean it wouldn't fit into a 2.5 inch bey.
Lol, i can get a 8gb USB drive for like um, 5USD or less, its a sandisk or Kingston. I don't
have any usb drives that is less than 32GB, and my lease storage of all, dare i say, touch
screen device is all 16gb for iphone 4, and above. my iPad mini is 64GB, nexus 7 1st gen
is 32gb, iphone 5 = 32gb, etc etc. And, i honestly don't see the value to get a harddrive
with 320GB, when i can get the 500GB harddrive for the same, if not cheaper price...
It is not about how much i needed, but how much i may need. I'm one who look forward,
not look backward...
It would go into a 3.5 inch bay, not a 2.5. *smile* The DC series has these for hard drives, media readers, and floppy drives. At least I know the 5850 and earlier do. I need to check on the 7900. But if not, it's not a deal breaker, though it is annoying. Not having a modem or a parallel port would be a problem.
Even looking ahead, I really can't see a time when I would need all of that space. I guess it's good from the money perspective, but even a 320gb drive is quite unnecessary for me. A 160 would be large enough to account for many years to come.
I cannot tell you how incredibly pathetic that is. Words literally fail me to
describe that level of absolute suck.
So just because something doesn't work for you, it's pathetic and sucks. Just because you need a monstrous amount of space and I don't, it somehow makes me a horrible person, or bad user of technology. Did it ever occurr to you that people use technology in different ways. I'm a braille reader, but I don't have a braille display. Does that make me bad? Should I start offending every blind person who doesn't know braille, just because I do? I'm not deaf, but many people are, and use technology to help them. Am I bad because I don't use it too? But why should I, when I don't need it? Should I also get a server and industrial equipment? I'm not a business and don't run a website. Everyone buys what they need.
The amount of space is not what makes it pathetic Tif. Its the narrowness of
your horizons that is sad. The fact that you only require that much is sad. You
only have four gigs of music, if I remember that correctly, and please don't take
that as an invitation to correct me, because I don't care. There are bands whose
output is more than that, and yet your entire collection is less than that? That is
sad. You need to expand your horizons. But, I'm probably beating my head
against a brick wall here. You probably still use wax cylinders or something.
on second thought I'm not selling the floppy drive. I'm gonna put w7 on this thing and get rid of the desktop, once and for all.
lol Cody, i can probably live with 4gb of music, but my books itself, include audiobooks,
daisy, text epub etc is more than 40GB of space. So, yeah, i honestly don't know how
people can live with 60gb of space, or even 120gb, or even 240gb... considering the price
you pay for less gbs, and what you can get for say, 1tb, i really can't give much thoughts
of 120gb or 320gb or even 500gb or 750gb... Tif, you know what TB meant? lol
Audio books are fine too. I have over sixteen gigs of those on my iphone
alone. If movies are your thing, have a selection of movies, but they should
take up more space than that. No one should be satisfied with so little.
Thank you, oh Great and Wise Leader. Have you put this into law yet, or are you still in the planning stages of dictating how much people should use and for what purposes? I have hundreds of books in my computer. All, except my J.R.R. Tolkien folder, are in txt format. The latter is 4gb, because it consists of mp3s. Most of my documents are in rtf or txt, so are not large, but I have many of those, particularly relating to Hellenic culture and history. My music folder grows, but slowly, as I find things. I have other music that is not on my computer, and when I rip cds, I choose only the songs that I like from them. It's the same with downloading things from Youtube. So it isn't as if I don't have a lot of things. I just use formats that don't take up a lot of space.
No, its that you don't have a lot of things. Even in songs, four gigs is no
longer a lot. It was a lot back in 1952, but it isn't a lot now.
Can I jump in here and ask what's it matter if she doesn't have a lot of music? wow! Now someone is not just picking fights for the sake of it?!
Have to agree with Rachael here, I'm afraid. Indulging in your inner-child, there, cody? lol.
Who cares if she has one gb of music. I don't really have any music--not that I use regularly--at all. I stream my music, and I used to have a vast music collection but I was stupid, didnt' back it up and lost it in a hard drive crash. And I just never bothered rebuilding it. Does that alter my respectability? lol
Narrow horizons lead to narrow minds, and narrow minds lead to bad things.
It is the mark of an open mind to be able to explore different worlds and enjoy
their nuances. Its why we think of people being well read as a sign of
intelligence, whereas the people who just like twilight we think are kinda off.
Think about it. If you met someone who said that the only book they liked
was the twilight series, what would you think of them? Would you think, "Well,
here's a harvard scholar" (without sarcasm), or would you think, "What the hell,
have you never read (insert name of good author here)". You'd think the latter,
all of you would. Unless, of course, you fall into the category of only liking
twilight.
Having a narrow mind, which as I said is a byproduct of narrow horizons, is a
symptom of conservatism. Conservatism, as I've also said before but not in this
post. gets you left behind. If you aren't willing to explore new worlds and new
civilizations, then you will get left behind in society. I think we can all see that
that is exactly what is happening to Tif. We've all tried to help drag her, kicking
and screaming, into the present day, but we all know its futile.
So, the problem here is not that she only has a certain amount of music, its
that she has a narrow mind. She's stuck in this rut of liking only this one thing,
and enjoying that one thing while eating one kind of sandwich and drinking one
kind of soda while sitting on one kind of chair wearing one kind of clothing day
in and day out. People like her get left behind. and while, normally, I wouldn't
care. Its on the boards, so its open for my opinion. My opinion is that its sad
and pathetic. You are welcome to draw your own conclusion.
Ok; that's a fair argument. And it's well presented. Thank you. lol.
Computers are not my life, despite my posting about them here. If you'll recall, as you were part of those discussions, I also posted a few essays and got hell for it, just because people didn't agree with my views. Not everyone thinks the same. There's nothing wrong with one person liking touchscreens, putting everything on their phones, and buying new technology the second it comes out. But there's also nothing wrong with those who like a good solid keyboard, who think a phone should be a phone, and who use what works for them. I have also tried at least two versions of OS X and am now trying Linux. I would hardly call that closed minded.
The word trying has some extremely negative connotations for me when you
use it Tif. I know that's judgmental, but to judge from your past posts about
you quote-unquote "trying" things, I'm skeptical of your ability to truly try
something. So when you say you're trying this OS or that one, I pretty much
assume that you mean you saw an article of a guy who once used it a couple
years ago or something.
Again, its judgmental, I know, but you've put a bad taste in my mouth from
all your catawalling, and I doubt I'm the only one. So, until you prove us
differently, yes, you are closed minded.
as for your claim that there's nothing wrong with those who just want a phone
that's a phone and so on, I'm afraid you're just wrong. Those people are quickly
being relegated to that chapter of history known as the past. Those people will
forever be struggling to do what people today can do without thinking, or don't
have to do at all. You're a perfect example of that. You struggle to find
technology that fits your needs, when the rest of us no longer even have that
need to struggle with. It isn't that we found a solution to it, its that the need no
longer exists for us.
So yes, from a societal standpoint, there is a lot wrong with your stance.
The problem with your kind is, in fact, that they don't think. They let machines and technology do so much for them that they've forgotten how to do things for themselves. I'm not talking about things like commandline versus gui, but typing properly, remembering phone numbers, cooking, survival skills, simple manners (finishing schools are actually being formed to help young people answer phones properly etc), and so on. That's very sad. And the fact that you think you can speak for all of society is even sadder. My phone is just a phone and it's still being sold today. You don't need to be a senior to use it either. It's just a simple phone, with excellent sound quality, long battery life, and yes, real buttons! It's what works for me, and I see no reason to change it.
http://www.just5.com/home.php
speaking of seniors, many seniors nowadays have iPhones, they find them much easier to use than phones with buttons, and they even *gasp* use the calendar app, rather than writing things down on paper.
so, OP, I hate to break it to you, but Cody is 100% right that most people learn to move forward, rather than lag behind...no matter their age.
I always find that argument ironic. People don't know how to do things
anymore, so we should stay in the past. Really? How far in the past. You're
using a computer, so do you know how to write by hand? Blind people used to
have to write by hand, how much do you still do that? And when I say write by
hand, I mean with a pen, not a slate. A pen.
Perhaps you'd like to give up that microwave you're so proud of? After all, no
one knows how to make real meals anymore. The microwave just heats things
up for them. Gone are those blissful days when women had to slave over the
hot hearth for hours just to make one meal. I bet you wouldn't even know how
to make bread on a hearth Tif.
survival skills? Yeah, like you've got those. Describe to me the difference
between a drop point and a lamb's foot point and then maybe we'll talk about
survival skills. Or, I'll make it easier, cuz that ones a little difficult. Tell me three
different ways to start a fire when you're out of matches and lighters without
googling.
Want to keep going? We could talk about cars. Do you know how to properly
tighten a laddigo Tif? Do you even know what I'm talking about right now?
Perhaps you know how to clean the dirt out from behind the frog? Hmm,
anything?
How about you actually know some of the things you're advocating before you
start saying we're losing skills. Until then, you're just being a fucking hypocrite.
I'm impressed. I didn't realise there was a brain inside your head. I thought you only knew how to insult people. Maybe, then, you'll survive and breed obnoxious children like yourself. But since you have such special knowledge, you must surely know that these things are not common knowledge. So even if you know them, and even if I knew them, that wouldn't make any difference. If you're any indication of general societal trends, I would say that most people lost the ability to respect others and to be civil. Thankfully, I know many who are far above you in that department, because they're decent people who can disagree in a proper manner and who know when it's time to walk away from a situation. Obviously, you and I will not agree on technology. What does it matter to you what I do or use? Ignore me if you hate me and my views that much!
I"m sorry, was there an argument in that anywhere? Can I get an "Oh, you're
right Cody. I didn't think of that". maybe a nice, "Wow, I am being a hypocrite
Cody, maybe I should examine some of my other ideas for inexplicable idiocy
and irrationality". Nope, all I get is "Cody is mean and insults people". Funny
how no one ever notices that I don't insult certain people. Like Bernadetta up
there, I don't insult her. Can anyone maybe guess why that is? Anyone at all?
Don't be shy, there are no wrong answers... well, except all the answers other
than the right one.
If you were a decent man, instead of an excuse for one, I would gladly have treated this differently, admitted that no, I didn't know most of what you mentioned, and we could have continued the conversation. But quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of you and your bullshit, in plain English. If you have nothing nice or helpful to say, shut the fuck up!
I have lots of helpful things to say Tif, but you don't want helpful. You want an
echo chamber. You want all of us to stand up and praise you for your wonderful
ideas in stereo unison. You want us all to find articles written when we were in
elementary school about tech invented when we were in the womb. You want us
to find solutions to your problems that you make yourself. You want to dive
head first into the ocean and ask us to save you when you can't swim. You don't
want help, you want servitude and compliant civility. Well blow me. I don't give
respect to anyone who doesn't earn it, and you've got a long way to climb
before you can even fill out an application.
honestly, I see nothing wrong with somebody who chooses to use a phone without a touch screen. Like Bernadetta, I also see nothing wrong with her lack of needing space for whatever. why does it really matter? I do agree that asking for help with old tech and trying to get it to do what it wasn't designed to do is not a good idea. Mainly cause people don't know how to help you with that eleni . also, if tiff wants to use her old tech just for the hell of it, that's fine by me. I wouldn't use it myself, but I sure wouldn't mind seeing it,and just knowing how stuff was different back then. I don't really think she's hurting anybody by doing w what she does. sure people get frustrated with her cause she doesn't seem open at times but it seems she's coming around. I think she just takes change slowly. waaay too sowly for a lot of people.
I admit that I can be annoying and frustrating to some. But I don't do this on purpose. I ask things because I honestly want to know. Some advice I take, and some I don't, but we all do that in life. I'm not against trying new things on principle, especially if I feel that they can truly benefit me in some way. But if something works well for me, I will continue to use it. Likewise, I will not be forced to change the interface that I use with my computer. There are millions of people around the world who use touchscreens, iphones, digital stoves, etc. They work well for them and make them happy. But not everyone agrees with them, and not everyone should be forced to do so, whether it be to follow the crowd or because of a disability, like blindness. Even in the sighted world, there are many choices in technology, from size, to colour, to features. If everyone held to the one size fits all philosophy, we wouldn't have Windows, Mac, Android, Linux, DOS, Amiga, etc. We would have only one type of computer, in one colour, and one size, and running one operating system. How boring!
choice is good.
although the peopoe that use dos is probably pr pretty small. the internet is a good thing.
Hmm. We were saying or rather betting how long will take Tif to come back with more
tech question. I think, its less time than any of us expected... lol
As far as I've been able to tell, Tiff is doing no wrong by asking the questions she's been asking on these boards. If you know the answer, help her out, if you don't, I suggest you move on, or perhaps read and learn from other responses.
All this is so unnecessary Cody; I can not believe some of the things I have read from you. Why on earth are you like this?
Your prev reply to Bernadetta and myself made no sense to me; I read it twice perhaps three times.
I get that you have a big problem with her though I still haven't been able to establish a reason. This said though, no-one deserves this much grief, do they?
Tiff, for goodness sakes, stop feeding the trolls; just leave it be for your own sake.
Oh yes, and just to add, as she pointed out herself, if she seriously makes you this utterly mad, ignore her, simple; everyone is happy that's unless your inner child isn't so much your inner child but an outer one.
Likewise, Tiff, you should know where the ignore button is too.
Yes. I have put him on ignore once more. That should make things much more peaceful.
Tif, I have the Verizon LG 5300 and continue to buy this Phone on ebay. there's also GreatCall which I believe has phones like this as well. The Flip phone isn't dead, as you can still find 3 or 4 on an any of the major carriers. thought i'd let you know. smile
I like flip phones. *smile* Mine is a candy bar style, but thankfully, it has a slider lock that prevents the keys from doing anything when accidentally hit.
Sorry RT, I don't really remember which post you're in reference to, so I can't
really expound on it. If you give me a post number, I'd be happy to try and
make it make a bit more sense to you.
Now, let me demonstrate some of the, admittedly theoretical at this point,
harm that Tif does by putting up all these board posts. Lets say a new blind
person comes onto the zone, lets name her Erika. Erika doesn't know the first
thing about tech. She doesn't know about jaws or voice over or apple or
windows or any of that. She's lost, and wants to find help. So she comes to
these boards.
Now Erika, not knowing anything, decides to scroll down the tech boards, and
what does she find? She finds good posts about good tech, good posts about
jaws and voice over, the accessibility of the iphone and the android. She finds
suggestions about wonderful technology that will allow her to be as close to on
par with her sighted peers as it is possible for her to be at this point. Then, she
finds Tif, and Tif is saying how she uses all these old technologies, and how she
makes them work. "Well, why couldn't I do that," Erika thinks to herself, and so
she contacts Tif to get information about her choice of programs and hardware.
Now, I'm sorry, but I don't think Tif has the integrity to say that Erika
shouldn't do that. I don't think Tif has the integrity to say, "This is admittedly
bad technology that I happen to use out of stubbornness and an unwillingness
to learn". I think Tif will say, "Oh, well I use this computer and this program,
and these floppy disks and it works well for me. I love it. Its great." So Erika
follows in Tif's footsteps. So now, instead of having a new blind girl discovering
the wonders of apple and android and google phones; the beauty and ease of
use of touch screens and well-working screen readers. We have a new blind girl
who is instilled with this fear of the new and the experimental that Tif extolls in
her posts.
Now, does Erika exist, no, I made her up. But do you honestly think there
aren't people out there exactly like her? You're daft if you think that. I'd be
willing to bet we all knew people like that, maybe we were once people like that.
And to allow people to voice these idiotic opinions without stringent challenges,
we do a disservice to all the other people who don't know the right answer. We
are badly discounting our fellow blind people who are searching for the right
answer by treating Tif as if she has an opinion worth voicing. We all know she's
wrong, and she has the right to be wrong all she wants. What she doesn't have
is the right to spread that incorrect opinion to others without those of us who
know better getting in her face and making it perfectly clear why she's
absolutely wrong, and why she could possibly be doing harm to others who
don't know any better yet.
It is the responsibility of those who know better to defend those who don't
from people like Tif who would teach them, or even suggest to them, an
incorrect position. It is the responsibility of those with knowledge to insure to
the best of their ability that those who don't have the knowledge gain access to
the best information possible. In this new world we have where everyone feels
entitled to shout their opinion as loudly as possible, and anyone who questions
it in a way they don't like is being a bully or a troll, we can't insure that. So, me
having better information than Tif, I feel a responsibility to others to
demonstrate how backward and ignorant Tif's posts and opinions are. I seem to
be one of very very few who are willing to do that, and that makes me very
very sad. Others will correct her, but they do it in whispers. They don't want to
offend, so they just say, "I don't feel you're exactly correct" and leave it at that.
That is irresponsible, and a shirking of your duty as an intelligent and
knowledgeable person.
I'll step down off my soap box now.
Tiffanitsa, I realize you are someone who likes older people and older things.
You sound an awful lot like my mother, who was admittedly old-fashioned for her own times. Now, that doesn't mean Cody's mother or most people's on this site: My mother, and I am in my mid 40s, which makes her in her 70s. We got her a phone that is just a phone: it's a Jitterbug. Go look it up and post tons of URLs without making them into links if you want, it makes you appear like you can copy paste.
Now, that Jitterbug is more expensive than most cell phones of its ability because it is all about appearing like it is an old-fashioned phone: Open it, it has a dial tone. Which for kidlets who text and have never taken anything apart, that means there is a circuit on the board that emits the two tones, so you feel like you are on a landline.
It costs more money because it's a specialized market. Now, at my parents' age, they are a bit young for this: it's really geared more for people in their 90s or so, but it's totally excusable. It's their money, they're also retired, and us sons are very glad they have this phone plus my fathers' more standard cell phone, so they can call someone when they are out and about. You know why? There are no phone booths anymore. Sure, some of us used to make calls in phone booths, cover the glass and make out in phone booths, or get high in phone booths, but they're gone now. Even the phone booth with the graffiti "Gello Biafra was here," as a token to the 1980s punk band The Dead Kennedys in North Portland is gone. They're all gone now, and so even technological ludites need to use a cell phone when on the road.
Now, take my parents-in-law. They're older than my parents. But they have an iPad and an iPhone. Great exercise for the daughter when she was still at home, we had her go help them learn to use it. Exercise being an exercise in patience and explanations, something no young spazz of a teenager of any generation wants to be.
But, my parent-in-law are using their I devices just fine. My father-in-law and I had a discussion this past weekend for him getting a mac like I just got his daughter / my wife a few months ago.
They don't have to work anymore, but they are keeping up. You're of working age, and you are holding onto technology and talking in ways that my grandmother, my mother's mother, used to talk.
Remembering phone numbers has no real merit. Necessity is not merit, it is necessity. It was Einstein who said, it is not intelligence to memorize what you could otherwise look up.
It is always more expensive to maintain old systems. Businesses pay a whole shit ton of money for developers and IT professionals to maintain old systems, not because they love old systems, but because they have assets in older databases which need to be maintained.
There is no sensible reason for an individual to do this. Do what you want. But this is not accessibility. This is Tiffanitsability.
People have made the same types of straw man arguments about people not knowing how to do things anymore for my whole lifetime, and for years before that. Any time there is a new development, that same tired old argument gets trotted out. And it makes no sense at all: Cody has a point. You and I don't write by hand. They tried to make me learn that when I was a kid. Practice an hour a day and so on. Most blind people never mastered handwriting, and most who did had seen letters before.
I think you need to find a site populated by ludites. Maybe a BBS - which in my own teenage years, the ludites decried for the same reasons you decry touch screens. At least with the same emotional zeal.
Actually, it does have merit. If you're out, and your phone dies, or you need to give the number to someone, or you're at a friend's house and forgot to bring your phone, etc. you can immeiately know the number of the person you want to call and do so. Each one of us has a built-in computer, and for most of us, it's extremely powerful and versatile. It's called a brain, and I have no intention of losing mine.
As for the Jitterbug, I considered it, and also the Doro Handle Easy line, but I'm quite happy with my Just 5.
As for posting urls by copying and pasting, I should hope that, after 17 years of computing, I would know how to do that. I don't need little share buttons to get the job done, though I suppose they're useful if you want to share to multiple sites at once.
Nor do you need html to code them as links either, apparently. You could use the brain that you have, unlike the rest of us who use the phone book apps on our phones, and learn to code html by hand, as some of us used to do back in the 90s.
I probably could. I do know how to make LJ tags, and learning html is good if I wanted to write a website, which I might do one day. But it's just as easy to paste the link in a post, or when I see one that doesn't show up as a link, to copy and paste it into my address bar and then hit enter.
I am going to say this one thing, so those who know me and know which moble OS I would rather use on a dayly bases here you got, a kick in the pants and me being honest. Tiff, when you bought your nexus7, I do not recall you asking any of us "android users " not "android tinkers" mean people who play with the OS but do not use it as one of there OS to get a job done or for dayly use. Back to what I was saying: I do not recall you asking about your kitcat keyboard device's keyboard support until you bought it. So here is the trueth, compared to IOS it sucks, I will not mix words attempt to defend google in any way, it sucks. So with that said, why did you buy it with out asking any of us who use android and enjoy it regardless of its pitfalls?
To be honest, it was the second time in my life that I bought something slightly on impulse. I say slightly because the first time, it was a very strange tape recorder that I knew I could never use, as it had a nonstandard microcassette. But the controls were odd and it was made by Norelco, which I had thought only made shavers. So I bought it for about $5. That was a true impulse buy. In the case of the Android, my parents had received one at a timeshare meeting, and Mom told me about it. Neither of them wanted it. I did about a week's worth of research, trying to figure out if it was accessible, etc. They said that it was best to get a Google tablet, since it would come with a stock screen, Talkback, etc. Mom and I were in the store one day, and they had a 2012 model (this was in December or so of 2013). I wasn't sure if I should get it, but Mom offered to buy it for me as a gift, and I would take it back if I didn't like it. So I got it, had Mobile Accessibility installed on it and then switched to Talkback. But I also got an external keyboard with it, and it seemed that I could do most things without using the touchscreen. So I kept it. I had a lot to learn and was basically playing around with it, trying different apps, etc. The problems really started when I tried to use Firefox and set things in Talkback. It was then that I realised that I couldn't do these things without the use of the touchscreen.
I'm not sure why I'm holding onto it. Even Mom suggested that I sell it, since I could still get good money for it. The RiVo keyboard excited me, because they found a way to replace gestures with keystrokes. But I'm a very fast typist, and if I had to think of the equivalent number, each time I wrote a letter, it would drive me mad! Still, I'm hoping that the makers of the RiVo, or even another company, makes a keyboard, with actual letters, that accomplishes what this one does. Then, I think I could use Android without any problems!
Cody, I believe it was post 100 but it's OK; you don't need to explain it to me. I know your views and you've already made your mind up on who Tiff is just because she is choosing to ask about older technology.
my point is that surely you can explain to any new people (such as the one you made up in your prev post) that there are newer and better tech out there, without belittling Tiff.
Reading all your board posts, I can see you're a very iteligent young man who does research a lot before he makes informed board posts; that is to be admired but you're constant stirring of people is certainly not.
I think you'll find that if people disagree with Tiff, they will quite happily say so without the extra belittling that you're so fond of.
OK I've said all I had to now so I'll leave you all be to fight your own battles. Lol :)
Getting back to the original topic of this post, that Keynote Companion is still on Ebay, and it's driving me crazy! Aside from the Android and that recorder, I'm not the type to just buy things rashly. Other than my patriotic items from Ebay, and one or two wall hangings that Mom bought and that go with the theme that I chose for my kitchen, I don't have nicknacks, decorations, or other such things. It takes a lot for me to break down and buy something silly, even if it's dirt cheap. I always have to find a reason for needing something, or explain to myself how I'll use it, especially if it's an expensive item. I know that I don't need this machine. I just bought a fully modern laptop. I can even find better DOS palmtops out there! But I have wanted a Companion for 12 years now, and not only is it right there, but everything is included with it, as if it came directly from the factory! I will most likely never find one like this again. But it's still $399 with $25 shipping! If it was $200, $250, or maybe even $299, I could justify it. But I don't know. I still have to get a desktop, and even if I find one for under $250, including shipping, I've already spent $206 for the laptop, and will soon be spending $19 for a bag, and $26 for an external dvd burner. Then again, I'm selling several things, and I'll be sure to make at least $400 minimum, and several hundred over that amount if I add a few more things to the list. So I'm really not sure what to do. This is one of those heart over head things, and for once, I'm equally torn.
Maybe, I'll just get another BrailleNote, but much newer than mine (early 2002). It has the same voice and programs as the Companion, is still light and small, and can be used as a synthesizer, most likely with VocalEyes and ASAP, and not just Windows screen readers. Plus, I can easily get on the internet, play music, etc. with it. I guess it depends on which one is cheaper. But if I'm just getting a BrailleNote, I can wait on that.
I wouldn't use the braille note to get online. that's one of the things I wouldn't recommend it for. If you want true accessibility in terms of notetakers, go with the sense line from Hyms. Trust me. I just got a new braille sense--actually it's used and it's an earlier model rather than the latest one--but it's such an improvement to the braille Note. I used to be a major braille not esupporter. Until now. If you wnat to really be able to get online without an issue, I'd try obtaining an earlier voice sense rather than an earlier braille note if I were you. Just a few thoughts.
I might get cust out but oh well, just go online with your nexus7 and use firefox or chrom. Seriously no notetaker has the power that your nexus7 has. If you must know its a quad core with 2 gigs of ram.
I already bought that Asus 1015E, so I'm set when it comes to portable modern machines. Here, I'm looking for either for some kind of notetaker or an older palmtop. But if I don't get the Companion, and don't see a newer notetaker with an unbeatable price, I can easily wait to make my decision.